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Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable
27 complete historical source paragraphs and 41 editorial footnotes. Author and edition credits are shown for each record; original wording is retained.
English translation and editorial credits: Blomfield Jackson.
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The reference in Schulze’s edition is to Jeremiah x. 16, but here the Septuagint ὁ πλάσας τὰ πάντα does not bear out the point. The quotation is no doubt of Amos v. 8, where the LXX is ὁ ποιῶν πάντα καὶ μετασκευάζων
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-8 · Original source
Orth.—The creature is transformed by the Creator as He will, for it is mutable and obeys the nod of Him that fashioned it. But His nature is immutable and invariable, wherefore of the creature the prophet saith “He that maketh and transformeth all things.” But of the divine Word the great David says “Thou art the same and thy years shall not fail.” And again the same God says of Himself “For I am the Lord and I change not.”
cf. Article ix. of the English Church. Sin is not part of man’s nature, but the fault or corruption of it. If in one sense the fallen Adam is the natural man, in a higher sense Christ, the Son of man, is the natural man; i.e. in Him the manhood is seen incorrupt. cf. p. 183 and note.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-16 · Original source
Orth.—Sin is not of nature, but of corrupt will. On this very account, therefore, I did not say indefinitely what Abraham had, but what he had according to nature, that is to say, body and reasonable soul. Now tell me plainly; will you acknowledge that the seed of Abraham was endowed with body and reasonable soul? If not, in this point you agree with the ravings of Apollinarius. But I will compel you to confess this by other means. Tell me now; had the Jews a body and a reasonable soul?
Gen. xlix. 10. Here the text follows the Alexandrine Septuagint substituting ἕως ἂν ἔλθῃ ᾧ ἀπόκειται for ἕως ἂν ἔλθῃ τὰ ἀποκείμενα αὐτῷ The Vulgate runs “Non auferetur sceptrum de Iuda, et dux de femore eius, donec veniat qui mittendus est et ipse erit expectatio gentium.”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-20 · Original source
Orth.—Enough has been said to remove all the controversy raised on this point. But I will nevertheless remind you of another prediction. The blessing given to the Patriarch Jacob and to his father and his grandfather was given by him to his son Judah alone. He said “A Prince shall not fail Judah, nor a leader from his loins, until he shall have come to whom it is in store, and he is the expectation of the Gentiles.” Or do you not accept this prediction as spoken of the Saviour Christ?
Baruch iii. 35, 37 “The ascription of the prophecy of Baruch to Jeremiah may be explained by the fact that in the lxx. Baruch was placed either before or after Lamentations, and was regarded in the early church as an appendix to, and of equal authority with, Jeremiah. It is so quoted by Irenæus, Clemens Alexandrinus, and Tertullian.” Augustine de Civ. xviii, 33. quotes Baruch iii. 16. with the remark “Hoc testimonium quidem non Hieremiæ sed Scribæ eius attribuunt qui vocabatur Baruch, sed Hieremiæ celebratius habetur.”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-28 · Original source
Eran.—“This is our God and there shall none other be accounted of in comparison to him—he hath found out all the way of knowledge, and hath given it unto Jacob his servant and to Israel his beloved. Afterward did he shew himself upon earth and conversed with men.”
This passage and a parallel passage from Dial. II. were quoted with force in the discussions of the English Reformation. Bp. Ridley on the foregoing writes (A Brief Declaration of the Lord’s Supper, Parker Soc. Ed. p. 35.) “What can be more plainly said than this that this old writer saith? That although the Sacraments bear the name of the body and blood of Christ, yet is not their nature changed, but abideth still. And where is then the Papists’ transubstantiation?”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-55 · Original source
Orth.—To them that are initiated in divine things the intention is plain. For he wished the partakers in the divine mysteries not to give heed to the nature of the visible objects, but, by means of the variation of the names, to believe the change wrought of grace. For He, we know, who spoke of his natural body as corn and bread, and, again, called Himself a vine, dignified the visible symbols by the appellation of the body and blood, not because He had changed their nature, but because to their nature He had added grace.
Aristotle (Œc: 1. 6. 1.) uses the proverb as we say in English “to draw water in a sieve.”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-59 · Original source
Orth.—It seems, as the proverb has it, as if we are drawing water in a pail with a hole in it. For after all our demonstrations and solutions of difficulties, you are bringing the same arguments round again.
Ps. xl. 7. Septuagint. The difficulty how to account for the rendering of ולִהירִכָּ סִמַכןְאָ i.e. “My ear hast thou dug” by “σῶμα κατηρτίσω” is an old one. Did ΗΘΕΛΗCΑCΩΤΙΑΔΕΚΑΤΗΡΤΙCΩ get altered by mistake into ΗΘΕΛΗCΑCCΩΜΑΔΕΚΑΤΗΡΤΙCΩ? “How the word σῶμα came into the lxx. we cannot say; but being there it is now sanctioned for us by the citation here; not as the, or even a proper rendering of the Hebrew, but as a prophetic utterance.” Alford ad loc.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-66 · Original source
Orth.—It appears that you do not even understand the composition of words, much less their meaning, for he is teaching Joseph the manner, not of the generation, but of the conception. For he does not say that which is generated of her, i.e. made, or formed, is of the Holy Ghost. Joseph, ignorant of the mystery, was suspicions of adultery; he was therefore plainly taught the formation by the Spirit. It is this which He signified through the prophet when He said “A body hast thou prepared me” for the divine Apostle being full of the Spirit interpreted the prediction. If then the offering of gifts is the special function of priests and Christ in His humanity was called priest and offered no other sacrifice save His own body, then the Lord Christ had a body.
Antipater or Antipas, a = Cypros, an Idumæan, wealthy Idumæan. | Herod the Great = Mariamne, Princess of the Maccabees. | _____________________ | | Alexander. Aristobulus. | __________________________________ | | Herod Agrippa I. Herod K. of Chalcis. Herodias. | __________________________ | | Herod Agrippa II. Bernice. Drusilla.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-77 · Original source
Orth.—From the foreigner Herod, who, on his father’s side, was an Ascalonite, and on his mother’s an Idumæan; but they, too, have all disappeared, and many years have gone by since their sovereignty came to an end. But our Lord God promised not only to maintain the seed of David for ever, but to establish his kingdom undestroyed; for He said, “I will build up my throne to all generations.”
A.V. “reprove with equity for the meek of the earth;” Sept. ἐλέγξει τοὺς ταπεινους τῆς γῆς
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-90 · Original source
Orth.—Now hear what follows. You will see some things that transcend human nature, he goes on. “He shall not judge after the sight of His eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of His ears, but with righteousness shall He judge the poor, and reprove with equity the mighty of the earth, and He shall smite the earth with the word of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips shall he slay the wicked.” Now of these predictions some are human and some divine. Justice, truth, equity, and rectitude in giving judgment exhibit virtue in human nature.
A κενὴ ἐλπίσο πίστις would be a faith which could not possibly be realized; and ματαία ἐλπίς a hope of not impossible but very improbable fulfilment. But the distinction between κενός and ματαῖος is hardly borne out by their use in the text.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-101 · Original source
Orth.—I also follow this divine teaching, but I understand it in a pious sense, as meaning that He was made Flesh by taking flesh and a reasonable soul. But if the divine Word took nothing of our nature, then the covenants made with the patriarchs by the God of all with oaths were not true, and the blessing of Judah was vain, and the promise to David was false, and the Virgin was superfluous, because she did not contribute anything of our nature to the Incarnate God. Then the predictions of the prophets have no fulfilment. Then vain is our preaching, vain our faith and vain the hope of the resurrection for the Apostle, it appears, lies when he says “and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” For if the Lord Christ had nothing of our nature then He is falsely described as our first fruits, and His bodily nature has not risen from the dead and has not taken the seat in Heaven on the right hand; and if He has obtained none of these things, how hath God raised us up together and made us sit together with Christ, when we in no wise belong to Him in Nature? But it is impious to say this, for the divine apostle, though the general resurrection has not yet taken place, though the kingdom of heaven has not yet been bestowed upon the faithful, exclaims, “He hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus,” in order to teach that since the resurrection of our first fruits, and His sitting on the right hand has come to pass, we too in general shall attain the resurrection, and that all they who share in His nature and have adopted His faith, share too in the first fruits of His glory.
de Incar. Dom. Sac. vi. II. Ed. Ben. p. 716. The Latin of Ambrose, which is not exactly rendered by Theodoret, is as follows:—"Sic scriptum est, inquiunt, quia Verbum caro factum est (Ioan 1, 14). Scriptum est, non nego: sed considera quid sequatur; sequitur enim: Et habitavit in nobis, hoc est, illud Verbum quod carnem suscepit, hoc habitavit in nobis, hoc est, in carue habitavit humana. "Miraris ergo quia scriptum est: Verbum caro factum est, cum caro assumpta sit a Dei Verbo: quando de peccato quod non habuit, scriptum est quia peccatum factus est, hoc est, non natura operationeque peccati, utpote in similitudinem carnis peccati factus: sed ut peccatum nostrum in sua carne crucifigeret, susceptionem pro nobis infirmitatum obnoxii jam corporis peccati carnalis assumpsit. Desinant ergo dicere naturam Verbi in corporis naturam esse mutatam; ne pari interpretatione videatur natura Verbi in contagium mutata peccati Aliud est enim quod assumpsit, et aliud quod assumptum est.”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-115 · Original source
Orth.—I will give you his interpretation. Ambrosius says in his work concerning the faith “It is written that the Word was made flesh. I do not deny that it is written, but look at the terms used; for there follows ‘and dwelt among us,’ that is to say dwelt in human flesh. You are therefore astonished at the terms in which it is written that the Word was made flesh, on the assumption of flesh, by the divine Word, when also concerning sin which He had not, it is said that He was made sin, that is to say not that He was made the nature and operation of sin, but that he might crucify our sin in the flesh; let them then give over asserting that the nature of the Word has undergone change and alteration, for He who took is one and that which was taken other.”
“In the Eastern church till nearly the end of the fourth century we find, as has been said, the divine celebration of Christ’s nativity and baptism on January 6th. The date of the severance of the two can be approximately fixed, for Chrysostom refers to it as a matter of merely a few years’ standing, in a sermon probably delivered on the Christmas day of 386 a.d. How far back we are to refer the origin of this two-fold festival it is not easy to determine, the earliest mention of any kind being the allusion by Clement of Alexandria to the annual commemoration of Christ’s baptism by the Basilidians (Stromata, lib. i. c. 21). At any rate by the latter part of the fourth century the Epiphany had become one of the most important and venerable festivals in the Eastern church.” Dict. Christ. Ant. i. 617.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-117 · Original source
It is now fitting that you should hear the teachers of the east, this being the only quarter of the east, this being the only quarter of the world which we have hitherto left unnoticed, though they indeed might well have first witnessed to the truth, for to them was first imparted the teaching of the apostles. But since you have sharpened your tongues against the first-born sons of piety by whetting them on the hone of falsehood, we have reserved for them the last place, that after first hearing the rest, you might lay witness by the side of witness, and so at once admire their harmony, and cease from your own interminable talk. Listen then to Flavianus who for a long time right wisely moved the tiller of the church of Antioch, and made the churches which he guided ride safe over the Arian storm, by expounding to them the word of the gospel. “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us; He is not turned into flesh, nor yet did he cease from being God, for this he was from all eternity and became flesh in the dispensation of the incarnation after himself building his own temple, and taking up his abode in the passible creature.” And if you desire to hear the ancients of Palestine, lend your ears to the admirable Gelasius, who did diligent husbandry in the church of Cæsarea. Now these are his words in his homily on the festival of the Lord’s epiphany. “Learn the truth from the words of John the Fisherman, ‘And the word was made flesh,’ not having himself undergone change, but having taken up his abode with us. The dwelling is one thing; the Word is another; the temple is one thing, and God who dwells in it, another.”
The modern reader will not omit to note the bearing of these patristic interpretations of the scriptural statements that the word was “made” flesh and that Christ was “made” a curse on later controversies concerning Transubstantiation.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-120 · Original source
Orth.—Well, this most excellent man has interpreted this passage of the Gospel. He writes, “When you hear that the Word was made flesh, be not startled or cast down, for the substance did not deteriorate into flesh—an idea of the uttermost impiety—but continuing to be just what it is, so took the form of a servant. For just as when the apostle says ‘Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,’ he does not say that the substance of Christ departed from His own glory, and took the substance of a curse, a position which not even devils would imagine, nor the utterly senseless, and the naturally idiotic—so remarkable being the connection between impiety and insanity. But what he does assert is that after receiving the curse due to us, He does not suffer us to be cursed for the future. It is in this sense that He is stated to have been made flesh, not because he had changed the substance into flesh, but because he had assumed the flesh, the substance remaining all the while unimpaired.”
On the northern seaboard of Syria. Severianus was at one time Chrysostom’s commissary and afterwards his determined opponent.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-121 · Original source
You may like to hear also Severianus, Bishop of Gabala. If so, I will adduce his testimony and do you lend your ears.
The value of Chrysostom and Severianus as independent witnesses is somewhat weakened by the fact, pointed out by Schulze, that among the writings of the former some are attributed to the latter.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-122 · Original source
Eran.—I admire the exact agreement of these men. For they are as unanimous in giving the same interpretations of evangelical writings as if they had met in the same place and written down their opinion together.
The Apost. Const. vii. 46. represent Ignatius as ordained by St. Paul. Malalas describes St. Peter as ordaining Ignatius on the death of Euodius. Vide article “Euodius” in Dict. Christ. Biog.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-123 · Original source
Orth.—Mountains and seas separate them very far from one another, yet distance does not damage their harmony, for they were all inspired by the same gift of the spirit. I would also have offered you the interpretations of the victorious champions of piety Diodorus and Theodorus, had I not seen that you were ill disposed towards them, and had inherited the hostility of Apollinarius; you would have seen that they have expressed similar experiences, drawing water from the divine Fount, and becoming themselves too, streams of the spirit. But I will pass them by, for you have declared a truceless war against them. I will, however, shew you the famous teacher of the Church, and his mind about the divine incarnation, that you may know what opinion he held concerning the assumed nature. You have no doubt heard of the illustrious Ignatius, who received episcopal grace by the hand of the great Peter, and after ruling the church of Antioch, wore the crown of martyrdom. You have heard too of Irenæus, who enjoyed the teaching of Polycarp, and became a light of the western Gauls;—of Hippolytus and Methodius, bishops and martyrs, and the rest, whose names I will append to their expressions of opinion.
Bp. Lightfoot (Ap. Fathers pt. II. ii. 290.) adopts the reading κατὰ θέλημα καὶ δύναμιν for κατὰ θεότητα, and notes “Theodoret strangely substitutes θεότητα for θέλημα. This reading…may be due to…ignorance of the absolute use of θελημα. The Armenian translator likewise has substituted another word.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-124 · Original source
“Having a full conviction with respect to our Lord as being truly descended from David according to the flesh, son of God according to Godhead and power, born really of a virgin, baptized by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, really in the time of Pontius Pilate and of Herod the tetrarch crucified for our sake in the flesh.”
There is a play here on the σαρκοφόρος, νεκροφόρος, and, possibly, θεοφόρος. Vide Pearson and Lightfoot ad loc. (Ignat. ad Smyrn. V.)
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-127 · Original source
“For what advantageth it me if a man praises me but blasphemes my Lord, in not confessing him to be a bearer of flesh? but he who does not make this confession really denies Him and is himself bearer of a corpse.”
“A saying to this effect is attributed to Our Lord by Didymus on Ps. lxxxviii. 8. It is mentioned also by Origen Hom. XX. In Jerem. Sec. III.” Bp. Lightfoot l. c.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-128 · Original source
“For if these things were done by our Lord in appearance only, then it is in appearance only that I am a prisoner in chains; and why have I delivered myself to death, to fire, to sword, to the beasts? But he who is near to the sword is near to God. Only in the name of Jesus Christ that I may share his sufferings I endure all things while He, Perfect Man whom some in their ignorance deny, gives me strength.”
Bp. Lightfoot adopts the reading of Cod. Med. “that by his passion he might cleanse the water.” Ig. ad Eph. XVIII.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-131 · Original source
“For our God Jesus Christ was born in Mary’s womb by dispensation of God of the seed of David and of the Holy Ghost who was born and was baptized that our mortality might be purified.”
Ps. lxix. 26. A.V. They talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. lxx. R.V. They tell of the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-140 · Original source
“Since his going down into Mary is useless; for why went He down into her if He was designed to take nothing from her? And further, if He had taken nothing from Mary He would not have accepted the food taken from earth whereby is nourished the body taken from earth, nor would He like Moses and Elias, after fasting forty days, have hungered, on account of His body demanding its own food, nor yet would John his disciple when writing about him have said—‘Jesus being wearied from his journey sat,’ nor would David have uttered the prediction about him ‘And they added to the pain of my wounds,’ nor would he have wept over Lazarus, nor would He have sweated drops of blood, nor would He have said, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful,’ nor yet when He was pierced would blood and water have issued from His side. For all these things are proofs of the flesh taken from earth, which He had renewed in Himself in the salvation of his own creature.”
Adv. Hær. iii. 26. The allusion is to the gnostics and mainly to Valentinus and his school who imagined seven heavens, and a supercelestial space termed “Ogdoad.” “The doctrine of an Ogdoad of the commencement of finite existence having been established by Valentinus, those of his followers who had been imbued with the Pythagorean philosophy introduced a modification. In that philosophy the tetrad was regarded with peculiar veneration, and held to be the foundation of the sensible world.” Cf. Hippolytus Ref. vi. 23, p. 179 “We read there (Iren. i. xi.) of Secundus as a Valentinian who divided the Ogdoad into a right hand and a left hand tetrad, and in the case of Marcus who largely uses Pythagorean speculations about numbers, the tetrad holds the highest place in the system.” Dr. Salmon, Dict. Christ. Biog. iv. 72. Irenæus wrote a work, no longer extant, “on the Ogdoad.” Euseb. H.E. v. 20.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-151 · Original source
“Since then on account of the foreordained dispensation the spirit came down, and the only begotten Son of God, who also is Word of the Father, when the fulness of time was come, was made flesh in man and our Lord Jesus Christ—being one and the same—fulfilled all the human dispensation as the Lord himself testifies, and the apostles confess, all the teachings of men who invented the ogdoads and tetrads and similitudes are proved plainly false.”
Bishop first of Olympus and then of Patara at the beginning of the 4th c. This is the only fragment preserved by Theodoret.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-155 · Original source
Testimony of the Holy Methodius,bishop and martyr, from his discourse on the martyrs:—
The antithesis is between the Greek words θέσις and φύσις. cf. “Κρινοτέλην Πινδάρου, θέσὲι δὲ Φιλοξένου.” Corp. Ins. (add.) 2480. d.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-170 · Original source
“Whoever heard such things? Who taught them? Who learnt them? ‘Out of Zion shall go forth the law and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.’ But whence did these things come forth? What hell vomited them out? To say that the body taken of Mary was of the same substance as the Godhead of the Word, or that the Word was changed into flesh and bones and hairs and a whole body; whoever heard in a church or at all among Christians that God bore a body by adoption and not by birth?”
The word used is πρωτοπαθεῖν, a late and rare one. Galen uses the correlative πρωτοπὰθεια to express a condition distinguished from συμπάθεια
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-181 · Original source
“Let us see from their own words what reason they give for the being made man, that is for the incarnation. If indeed it was that God otherwise not contained in space, might be contained in space and, as it were under a veil, might converse with men in the flesh, then their mask and their stage play are exquisite: not to say that it was possible for Him otherwise to converse with us, as of yore, in a burning bush and in human form, but if that He might undo the damnation of sin by taking like to like then just as He required flesh on account of the condemned flesh, and a soul on account of the soul, so too he required a mind on account of the mind, which in Adam not only fell but,—to employ a term which physicians are accustomed to use about diseases—was affected with original malady. For that which did not keep the commandment was what had received the commandment; and that which dared transgression was what had not kept the commandment; and that which specially needed salvation was what had transgressed, and that which was assumed was what needed salvation; so the mind was assumed. Now this point has been demonstrated, whether they will or no, by proofs which are so to say mathematical and necessary. But you are doing just as though, if a man were to have a diseased eye and a limping foot you were to cure the foot but leave the eye uncured; or, if a painter had painted a picture badly, were to alter the picture, but leave the painter alone, as though he were doing his work well. But if they are so constrained by these arguments as to take refuge in the statement that it is possible for God to save man, even without a mind, why then clearly He might have done so even without flesh, by the mere expression of His will, just as He works and has worked in the universe without a body. Away then with the flesh as well as with the mind! Let there be no inconsistency in your absurdity.”
e.g. Anubis, the barker Anubis—cf. Virg. Æn. viii. 698, and the common oath “by the dog,” unless indeed the common adjuration of Socrates νὴ τὸν κύνα may have been only a vernacular substitute for νὴ τὸν Διὰ, like the vulgar “law” for “Lord.” The Benedictine Ed. adds “cats.”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-198 · Original source
“For is it not of the very last stupidity for them to bring down their own gods into stones and cheap wooden images, shutting them up as it were in a kind of prison, and to fancy that there is nothing disgraceful in what they either say or do, and then to find fault with us for saying that God made a living temple for Himself of the Holy Ghost, by means of which he brought succour to the world? For if it is disgraceful for God to dwell in a human body, then in proportion as the stone and the wood are more worthless than man is it much more disgraceful for him to dwell in stone and wood. But perhaps mankind seems to them to be of less value than these senseless objects. They bring down the substance of God into stones and into dogs; but many heretics into fouler things than these. But we could never endure even to hear of these things. But what we say is that of a virgin’s womb the Christ took pure flesh, holy and without spot, and made impervious to all sin, and restored the body that was His own.”
Cf. note p. 36, History.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-1 · Original source
Eran.—Is there any difference between substance and hypostasis?
“Sauromatas gentes Scytharum Græci vocant, quos Sarmatas Romani.” Pliny iii.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-2 · Original source
Orth.—We speak of race or kind with regard to the animal, for it means many things at once. It indicates both the rational and the irrational; and again there are many species of irrational, creatures that fly, creatures that are amphibious, creatures that go on foot, and creatures that swim. And of these species each is marked by many subdivisions; of creatures that go on foot there is the lion, the leopard, the bull, and countless others. So, too, of flying creatures and the rest there are many species; yet all of them, though the species are the aforesaid, belong to one and the same animal race. Similarly the name man is the common name of mankind; for it means the Roman, the Athenian, the Persian, the Sauromatian, the Egyptian, and, in a word, all who are human, but the name Paulus or Petrus does not signify what is common to the kind but some particular man; for no one on hearing of Paul turns in thought to Adam or Abraham or Jacob, but thinks of him alone whose name he has heard. But if he hears the word man simply, he does not fix his mind on the individual, but bethinks him of the Indian, the Scythian, and the Massagete, and of all the race of men together, and we learn this not only from nature, but also from Holy Scripture, for God said, we read, “I will destroy man from the face of the earth,” and this he spake of countless multitudes, and when more than two thousand and two hundred years had gone by after Adam, he brought universal destruction on men through the flood, and so the blessed David says: “Man that is in honour and understandeth not,” accusing not one here nor one there, but all men in common. A thousand similar examples might be found, but we must not be tedious.
Genesis xviii. i. Sept.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-40 · Original source
Eran.—Yet we hear the divine scripture saying God appeared unto Abraham at the oak of Mamre; and Isaiah says “I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne high and lifted up,” and the same thing is said by Micah, by Daniel and Ezekiel. And of the lawgiver Moses it is related that “The Lord spake to Moses face to face as a man speaketh unto his friend,” and the God of the universe Himself said, “With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently and not in dark speeches.” What then shall we say; did they behold the divine nature?
Hosea xii. 10. Sept. A.V. has “used similitudes.”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-44 · Original source
Orth.—Yes; and this He has shewn through the Prophet, “for I,” He says, “have multiplied visions and by the hands of the Prophets was made like.”
Ps. lxxxix. 35, 36, 37
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-82 · Original source
Orth.—Go on then to what follows and your opinion upon this point will be in every way confirmed, for again saith the God of the universe, “Once have I sworn by my holiness, if I lie unto David, his seed shall endure for ever and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon.”
I Ep. ad Cled. i. Ed. Paris. p. 744.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-112 · Original source
Orth.—Hear him then. He says “the expression ‘He was made Flesh’ seems to be parallel to His being said to have been made sin and a curse, not because the Lord was transmuted into these,—for how could He?—but because He accepted these when He took on Him our iniquities and bore our infirmities.”
Chrys. Ed. Sav. II. p. 598.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-118 · Original source
Orth.—Well, this most excellent man has interpreted this passage of the Gospel. He writes, “When you hear that the Word was made flesh, be not startled or cast down, for the substance did not deteriorate into flesh—an idea of the uttermost impiety—but continuing to be just what it is, so took the form of a servant. For just as when the apostle says ‘Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,’ he does not say that the substance of Christ departed from His own glory, and took the substance of a curse, a position which not even devils would imagine, nor the utterly senseless, and the naturally idiotic—so remarkable being the connection between impiety and insanity. But what he does assert is that after receiving the curse due to us, He does not suffer us to be cursed for the future. It is in this sense that He is stated to have been made flesh, not because he had changed the substance into flesh, but because he had assumed the flesh, the substance remaining all the while unimpaired.”
Ignat. ad Smyrn. IV.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-129 · Original source
“For if these things were done by our Lord in appearance only, then it is in appearance only that I am a prisoner in chains; and why have I delivered myself to death, to fire, to sword, to the beasts? But he who is near to the sword is near to God. Only in the name of Jesus Christ that I may share his sufferings I endure all things while He, Perfect Man whom some in their ignorance deny, gives me strength.”
Prov. viii. 22. Sept.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-157 · Original source
Of the same from his sermon on “the Lord created me in the beginning of His way”:—
The original for ἁρπάσας, “seizing” has ἁγιάσας i.e. hallowing.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-180 · Original source
“Let us see from their own words what reason they give for the being made man, that is for the incarnation. If indeed it was that God otherwise not contained in space, might be contained in space and, as it were under a veil, might converse with men in the flesh, then their mask and their stage play are exquisite: not to say that it was possible for Him otherwise to converse with us, as of yore, in a burning bush and in human form, but if that He might undo the damnation of sin by taking like to like then just as He required flesh on account of the condemned flesh, and a soul on account of the soul, so too he required a mind on account of the mind, which in Adam not only fell but,—to employ a term which physicians are accustomed to use about diseases—was affected with original malady. For that which did not keep the commandment was what had received the commandment; and that which dared transgression was what had not kept the commandment; and that which specially needed salvation was what had transgressed, and that which was assumed was what needed salvation; so the mind was assumed. Now this point has been demonstrated, whether they will or no, by proofs which are so to say mathematical and necessary. But you are doing just as though, if a man were to have a diseased eye and a limping foot you were to cure the foot but leave the eye uncured; or, if a painter had painted a picture badly, were to alter the picture, but leave the painter alone, as though he were doing his work well. But if they are so constrained by these arguments as to take refuge in the statement that it is possible for God to save man, even without a mind, why then clearly He might have done so even without flesh, by the mere expression of His will, just as He works and has worked in the universe without a body. Away then with the flesh as well as with the mind! Let there be no inconsistency in your absurdity.”
Prov. viii. 22; lxx. “ἔκτισε.”
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-187 · Original source
“The expression ‘created me’ is not to be understood of the divine and the undefiled, but, as has been said, of our created nature, according to the dispensation of the incarnation.”
οἰκονομὶα. cf. note on p. 72.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-188 · Original source
“The expression ‘created me’ is not to be understood of the divine and the undefiled, but, as has been said, of our created nature, according to the dispensation of the incarnation.”
Of these two works no fragments exist but these two preserved by Theodoretus.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-192 · Original source
“Hear Him saying, ‘The Spirit is upon me because He hath anointed me.’ You do not know, He says, what you read, for I, the anointed with the Spirit, am come to you. Now what is akin to us, and not the invisible nature, is anointed with the Spirit.”
οἰκονουία. cf. note on p. 72.
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-195 · Original source
“How was Adam disobedient in Heaven, and how of heavenly body was he formed first-formed beside the first formation? But it was the Adam of the earth who was formed at the beginning; the Adam of the earth disobeyed; the Adam of the earth was assumed. Wherefore also the Adam of the earth was saved that thus the reason of the incarnation may be proved necessary and true.”
σάρκωσις κένωσις. cf. Phil. ii. 7
Editorial footnote · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, editorial note cite_note-202 · Original source
And again a little further on he says—“To be made flesh is to be made empty, but the being made empty declares not man, but the Son of man, who ‘emptied Himself’ not by undergoing change, but by investiture.”
Orth.—The creature is transformed by the Creator as He will, for it is mutable and obeys the nod of Him that fashioned it. But His nature is immutable and invariable, wherefore of the creature the prophet saith “He that maketh and transformeth all things.” But of the divine Word the great David says “Thou art the same and thy years shall not fail.” And again the same God says of Himself “For I am the Lord and I change not.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 39 · Original source
Orth.—Sin is not of nature, but of corrupt will. On this very account, therefore, I did not say indefinitely what Abraham had, but what he had according to nature, that is to say, body and reasonable soul. Now tell me plainly; will you acknowledge that the seed of Abraham was endowed with body and reasonable soul? If not, in this point you agree with the ravings of Apollinarius. But I will compel you to confess this by other means. Tell me now; had the Jews a body and a reasonable soul?
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 61 · Original source
Orth.—Enough has been said to remove all the controversy raised on this point. But I will nevertheless remind you of another prediction. The blessing given to the Patriarch Jacob and to his father and his grandfather was given by him to his son Judah alone. He said “A Prince shall not fail Judah, nor a leader from his loins, until he shall have come to whom it is in store, and he is the expectation of the Gentiles.” Or do you not accept this prediction as spoken of the Saviour Christ?
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 77 · Original source
Eran.—“This is our God and there shall none other be accounted of in comparison to him—he hath found out all the way of knowledge, and hath given it unto Jacob his servant and to Israel his beloved. Afterward did he shew himself upon earth and conversed with men.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 86 · Original source
Orth.—Yes; and this He has shewn through the Prophet, “for I,” He says, “have multiplied visions and by the hands of the Prophets was made like.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 116 · Original source
Orth.—To them that are initiated in divine things the intention is plain. For he wished the partakers in the divine mysteries not to give heed to the nature of the visible objects, but, by means of the variation of the names, to believe the change wrought of grace. For He, we know, who spoke of his natural body as corn and bread, and, again, called Himself a vine, dignified the visible symbols by the appellation of the body and blood, not because He had changed their nature, but because to their nature He had added grace.
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 161 · Original source
Orth.—It seems, as the proverb has it, as if we are drawing water in a pail with a hole in it. For after all our demonstrations and solutions of difficulties, you are bringing the same arguments round again.
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 173 · Original source
Orth.—Listen now how the prophet praises God at the very beginning of the Psalm. He saw with his prophetic eyes the future iniquity of his people, and the captivity that was in consequence foredoomed; yet he praised his own Lord for unfailing promises. “I will sing,” he says, “of the mercies of the Lord forever, with my mouth will I make known Thy faithfulness to all generations, for thou hast said, Mercy shall be built up for ever, Thy faithfulness shalt Thou establish in the very heavens.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 191 · Original source
Through all this the prophet teaches that the promise was made by God on account of lovingkindness, and that the promise is faithful. Then he goes on to say what He promised, and to whom, introducing God Himself as the speaker. (“I have made a covenant with my chosen.”) It is the Patriarchs that He called chosen; then He goes on “I have sworn unto David my servant,” and He states concerning what He swore, “Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 192 · Original source
Orth.—Jews connect prophecies of this kind with Solomon and Zerubbabel, in order to exhibit the groundlessness of the Christian position; but the mere words are quite enough to convict them of their iniquity, for it is written “I will establish my throne for ever.” Now not only Solomon and Zerubbabel, to whom such prophecies are applied by the Jews, have lived out their appointed time, and reached the end of life, but the whole race of David has become extinct; for who ever heard of any one at the present day descended from the root of David?
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 207 · Original source
Orth.—From the foreigner Herod, who, on his father’s side, was an Ascalonite, and on his mother’s an Idumæan; but they, too, have all disappeared, and many years have gone by since their sovereignty came to an end. But our Lord God promised not only to maintain the seed of David for ever, but to establish his kingdom undestroyed; for He said, “I will build up my throne to all generations.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 211 · Original source
Orth.—After making many promises about this seed that it should be Lord both by sea and land and higher than the kings of the earth and be called the first begotten of God, and should boldly call God, Father God also added this, “My mercy will I keep for him for evermore and my covenant shall stand fast with him. His seed also will I make to endure for ever and his throne as the days of heaven.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 218 · Original source
Orth.—Go on then to what follows and your opinion upon this point will be in every way confirmed, for again saith the God of the universe, “Once have I sworn by my holiness, if I lie unto David, his seed shall endure for ever and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 220 · Original source
Orth.—These proofs then are sufficient to show clearly the manhood which our Lord and Saviour took of David’s seed. But to remove all possibility of doubt by the witness of the majority, let us hear how God makes mention of the promises given to David through the voice of the prophet Isaiah. “I will make,” he says, “an everlasting covenant with you,” and, signifying the law-giver, he adds, “even the sure mercies of David.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 225 · Original source
Since He made this promise to David, and spoke through Esaias, He will assuredly bring the promise to pass. And what follows after the prophecy is in harmony with what I say, for he saith “Behold I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Behold nations that know thee not shall call upon thee, and peoples that understand thee not shall run unto thee.” Now this fits in with none that are sprung from David, for who of David’s descendants, as Esaias says, was made a ruler of nations? And what nations in their prayers ever called on David’s descendants as God?
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 226 · Original source
Orth.—The sequel will shew you yet more plainly the truth of the interpretation. For he goes on, “The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,” and so on, whereby he teaches at once the distinction of modes of life and the harmony of faith; and experience furnishes a proof of the prediction, for they that abound in wealth, they that live in poverty, servants and masters, rulers and ruled, soldiers and citizens and they that wield the sceptre of the world are received in one font, are all taught one doctrine, are all admitted to one mystic table, and each of the believers enjoys an equal share.
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 234 · Original source
Orth.—I also follow this divine teaching, but I understand it in a pious sense, as meaning that He was made Flesh by taking flesh and a reasonable soul. But if the divine Word took nothing of our nature, then the covenants made with the patriarchs by the God of all with oaths were not true, and the blessing of Judah was vain, and the promise to David was false, and the Virgin was superfluous, because she did not contribute anything of our nature to the Incarnate God. Then the predictions of the prophets have no fulfilment. Then vain is our preaching, vain our faith and vain the hope of the resurrection for the Apostle, it appears, lies when he says “and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” For if the Lord Christ had nothing of our nature then He is falsely described as our first fruits, and His bodily nature has not risen from the dead and has not taken the seat in Heaven on the right hand; and if He has obtained none of these things, how hath God raised us up together and made us sit together with Christ, when we in no wise belong to Him in Nature? But it is impious to say this, for the divine apostle, though the general resurrection has not yet taken place, though the kingdom of heaven has not yet been bestowed upon the faithful, exclaims, “He hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus,” in order to teach that since the resurrection of our first fruits, and His sitting on the right hand has come to pass, we too in general shall attain the resurrection, and that all they who share in His nature and have adopted His faith, share too in the first fruits of His glory.
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 245 · Original source
Orth.—I will give you his interpretation. Ambrosius says in his work concerning the faith “It is written that the Word was made flesh. I do not deny that it is written, but look at the terms used; for there follows ‘and dwelt among us,’ that is to say dwelt in human flesh. You are therefore astonished at the terms in which it is written that the Word was made flesh, on the assumption of flesh, by the divine Word, when also concerning sin which He had not, it is said that He was made sin, that is to say not that He was made the nature and operation of sin, but that he might crucify our sin in the flesh; let them then give over asserting that the nature of the Word has undergone change and alteration, for He who took is one and that which was taken other.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 264 · Original source
It is now fitting that you should hear the teachers of the east, this being the only quarter of the east, this being the only quarter of the world which we have hitherto left unnoticed, though they indeed might well have first witnessed to the truth, for to them was first imparted the teaching of the apostles. But since you have sharpened your tongues against the first-born sons of piety by whetting them on the hone of falsehood, we have reserved for them the last place, that after first hearing the rest, you might lay witness by the side of witness, and so at once admire their harmony, and cease from your own interminable talk. Listen then to Flavianus who for a long time right wisely moved the tiller of the church of Antioch, and made the churches which he guided ride safe over the Arian storm, by expounding to them the word of the gospel. “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us; He is not turned into flesh, nor yet did he cease from being God, for this he was from all eternity and became flesh in the dispensation of the incarnation after himself building his own temple, and taking up his abode in the passible creature.” And if you desire to hear the ancients of Palestine, lend your ears to the admirable Gelasius, who did diligent husbandry in the church of Cæsarea. Now these are his words in his homily on the festival of the Lord’s epiphany. “Learn the truth from the words of John the Fisherman, ‘And the word was made flesh,’ not having himself undergone change, but having taken up his abode with us. The dwelling is one thing; the Word is another; the temple is one thing, and God who dwells in it, another.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 265 · Original source
Eran.—I admire the exact agreement of these men. For they are as unanimous in giving the same interpretations of evangelical writings as if they had met in the same place and written down their opinion together.
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 272 · Original source
Orth.—Mountains and seas separate them very far from one another, yet distance does not damage their harmony, for they were all inspired by the same gift of the spirit. I would also have offered you the interpretations of the victorious champions of piety Diodorus and Theodorus, had I not seen that you were ill disposed towards them, and had inherited the hostility of Apollinarius; you would have seen that they have expressed similar experiences, drawing water from the divine Fount, and becoming themselves too, streams of the spirit. But I will pass them by, for you have declared a truceless war against them. I will, however, shew you the famous teacher of the Church, and his mind about the divine incarnation, that you may know what opinion he held concerning the assumed nature. You have no doubt heard of the illustrious Ignatius, who received episcopal grace by the hand of the great Peter, and after ruling the church of Antioch, wore the crown of martyrdom. You have heard too of Irenæus, who enjoyed the teaching of Polycarp, and became a light of the western Gauls;—of Hippolytus and Methodius, bishops and martyrs, and the rest, whose names I will append to their expressions of opinion.
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 273 · Original source
“For what advantageth it me if a man praises me but blasphemes my Lord, in not confessing him to be a bearer of flesh? but he who does not make this confession really denies Him and is himself bearer of a corpse.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 279 · Original source
“For if these things were done by our Lord in appearance only, then it is in appearance only that I am a prisoner in chains; and why have I delivered myself to death, to fire, to sword, to the beasts? But he who is near to the sword is near to God. Only in the name of Jesus Christ that I may share his sufferings I endure all things while He, Perfect Man whom some in their ignorance deny, gives me strength.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 281 · Original source
“For our God Jesus Christ was born in Mary’s womb by dispensation of God of the seed of David and of the Holy Ghost who was born and was baptized that our mortality might be purified.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 283 · Original source
“If ye all individually come together by grace name by name in one faith, and in one Jesus Christ according to the flesh of David’s race Son of God and Son of man.
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 285 · Original source
“There is one Physician of flesh and of spirit generate and ingenerate, God in man, true life in death, Son of Mary and of God, first passible and then impassible, Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 287 · Original source
“Be ye made deaf therefore when any man speaks to you apart from Jesus Christ, who was of David’s race and of Mary, who was really born and really ate and drank and was persecuted in the time of Pontius Pilate, was crucified and died, while beings on earth and beings in heaven and beings under the earth were looking on.”
Complete source paragraph · Dialogues, Chapter uncertain; original source section: The Immutable, source paragraph 289 · Original source