Five Books in Reply to Marcion — Historical footnotes

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I make no apology for the ruggedness of the versification and the obscurity of the sense in this book, further than to say that the state of the Latin text is such as to render it almost impossible to find any sense at all in many places, while the grammar and metre are not reducible to any known laws. It is about the hardest and most uninteresting book of the five.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-1 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Tempora lustri, i.e., apparently the times during which these “elders” (i.e., the bishops, of whom a list is given at the end of book iii.) held office. “Lustrum” is used of other periods than it strictly implies, and this seems to give some sense to this difficult passage.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-4 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Ancipiti quamquam cum crimine. The last word seems almost ="discrimine;” just as our author uses “cerno” ="discerno.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-8 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Replesset, i.e., replevisset. If this be the right reading, the meaning would seem to be, “would have taken away all further desire for” them, as satiety or repletion takes away all appetite for food. One is almost inclined to hazard the suggestion “represset,” i.e., repressisset, “he would have repressed,” but that such a contraction would be irregular. Yet, with an author who takes such liberties as the present one, perhaps that might not be a decisive objection.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-18 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Junctus,” for the edd.’s “junctis,” which, if retained, will mean “in the case of beings still joined with (or to) blood.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-19 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Docetur,” for the edd.’s “docentur.” The sense seems to be, if there be any, exceedingly obscure; but for the idea of a half-salvation—the salvation of the “inner man” without the outer—being no salvation at all, and unworthy of “the Good Shepherd” and His work, we may compare the very difficult passage in the de Pudic., c. xiii. ad fin.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-20 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

This sense, which I deduce from a transposition of one line and the supplying of the words “he did exhort,” which are not expressed, but seem necessary, in the original, agrees well with 1 Cor. vii., which is plainly the passage referred to.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-21 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., you and your like, through whom sin, and in consequence death, is disseminated.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-23 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I hope I have succeeded in giving some intelligible sense; but the passage as it stands in the Latin is nearly hopeless.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-28 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

This seems to give sense to a very obscure passage, in which I have been guided more by Migne’s pointing than by Oehler’s.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-34 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., to make men live by recognising that. Comp. the Psalmist’s prayer: “Give me understanding and I shall live” (Ps. cxix. 144; in LXX., Ps. cxviii. 144).

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-36 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., both Jews and Gentile heretics, the “senseless frantic men” just referred to probably: or possibly the “ambo” may mean “both sects,” viz., the Marcionites and Manichees, against whom the writer whom Oehler supposes to be the probable author of these “Five Books,” Victorinus, a rhetorician of Marseilles, directed his efforts. But it may again be the acc. neut. pl., and mean “let them”—i.e., the “senseless frantic men”—“learn to believe as to both facts,” i.e., the incarnation and the resurrection; (see vers. 179, 180;) “the testimony at least of human reason.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-39 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I would suggest here, for “…quia summa voluntas In cujus manu regnantis cor legibus esset,” something like this, “…quia summa voluntas, In cujus manu regnantis cor regis, egisset,” which would only add one more to our author’s false quantities. “Regum egisset” would avoid even that, while it would give some sense. Comp. Prov. xxi. 1.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-40 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Maria cum conjuge feta. What follows seems to decide the meaning of “feta,” as a child could hardly be included in a census before birth.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-41 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Again I have had to attempt to amend the text of the Latin in order to extract any sense, and am far from sure that I have extracted the right one.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-42 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Because Christ plainly, as they understood Him, “made Himself the Son of God;” and hence, if they confessed that He had said the truth, and yet that they hanged Him on a tree, they would be pronouncing their own condemnation.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-45 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Quod qui præsumpsit mergentes spargitis ambo. What the meaning is I know not, unless it be this: if any one hints to you that you are in an error which is sinking you into perdition, you both join in trying to sink him (if “mergentes” be active; or “while you are sinking,” if neuter), and in sprinkling him with your doctrine (or besprinkling him with abuse).

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-48 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

For “dimisit in umbris” I read here “demisit in imbris.” If we retain the former reading, it will then mean, “dispersed during the shades of night,” during which it was that the manna seems always to have fallen.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-67 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

For “Mundator carnis seræ” ="the Cleanser of late flesh” (which would seem, if it mean anything, to mean that the flesh had to wait long for its cleansing), I have read “carnis nostræ.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-70 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Subiens” ="going beneath,” i.e., apparently coming beneath the walls of heaven.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-74 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I have hazarded the conjecture “minutus” here for the edd.’s “munitus.” It adds one more, it is true, to our author’s false quantities, but that is a minor difficulty, while it improves (to my mind) the sense vastly.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-76 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Or, “consecrated by seers and patriarchs.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-2 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Whether this be the sense I know not. The passage is a mass of confusion.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-11 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., apparently on the day of Christ’s resurrection.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-17 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Causa;” or perhaps “means.” It is, of course, the French “chose.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-22 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Here, again, for the sake of the sense, I have transposed a line.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-24 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., “the other,” the “inner man,” or spirit.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-25 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

The “furentes” of Pam. and Rig. is preferred to Oehler’s “ferentes.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-37 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Fatentur,” unless our author use it passively ="are confessed.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-43 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Possunt,” i.e., probably “have the hardihood.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-44 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., you and the Jews. See above on 185.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-47 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

This is an error, if the “coat” be meant.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-54 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Perhaps for “in illa” we should read “in illam”—“on it,” for “in it.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-55 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

For “ante diem quam cum pateretur” I have read “qua tum.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-57 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Cf. Jacob’s words in Gen. xxxii. 30; Manoah’s in Judg. xiii. 22; etc.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-65 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Sitientis” in Oehler must be a misprint for “sitientes.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-68 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

There ought to be a “se” in the Latin if this be the meaning.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-69 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I have followed the disjointed style of the Latin as closely as I could here.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-72 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Here we seem to see the idea of the “limbus patrum.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-73 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., all the number of Thy disciples.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-3 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., excommunicated.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-6 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., according to Marcion’s view.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-12 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., as spirits, like himself.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-13 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., through flesh.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-26 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., in His own person.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-27 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I read “legem” for “leges.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-29 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I read “valle” for “calle.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-30 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., “the gifts of baptism.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-33 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

I read here “quid” for “quod.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-35 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Complexis,” lit. “embracing.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-38 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Vinctam” for “victam” I read here.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-46 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

“Scriblita,” a curious word.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-52 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Or, “deed”—“factum.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-58 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Or, “is being poured”—“funditur.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-59 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

Ævo. Perhaps here ="eternity.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-62 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., “The All-Holder.”

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-63 · Original source

1885 (historical English edition; transcription printing date uncertain) | Historical editor/translator (individual note author unspecified)

i.e., a figure of the future harvest.

Editorial footnote · Five Books in Reply to Marcion, Book V.—General Reply to Sundry of Marcion’s Heresies., editorial note cite_note-75 · Original source